源本平凡库里、KD、沃尔前几赛季带队也不好,欧文是毒瘤还是新曼巴?-美国JRs之声0条评论

2018年11月22日   分类:全部文章   42人浏览

库里、KD、沃尔前几赛季带队也不好,欧文是毒瘤还是新曼巴?-美国JRs之声
美国JRS之声
库里、KD、沃尔前几赛季带队也不好,欧文是毒瘤还是新曼巴?
If Kyrie can't lead a team because of his win-loss record in first few years, then neither can KAT, AD, Durant, Curry, Wall (self.nba)
如果是因为欧文职业生涯前几年的球队战绩差而说他没有带队能力的话,那么同样也不能说唐斯、浓眉、杜兰特、库里、沃尔有带队能力。

We can also look at other player's in their first two seasons who had "bad records" but people would consider them franchise players. And these guys had significantly better rosters than what Kyrie had to work with too. The 2nd best player on the Cavs in Kyrie's rookie season was 35 year-old Antawn Jamison and in his soph year, it was rookie Dion Waiters. When Kyrie was finally moderately healthy, playing 71 games in his third year, the Cavs went 33-49 with the some actual help in TT and Luol Deng(who was only there half the season). 33 wins isn't great, but it improved every year and was getting there to making playoff level.
我们也可以看一些其他球员,他们在职业生涯的前两年战绩糟糕人工虎骨粉,但是人们仍认为他们是联盟中的基石型球员,而且他们身边的帮手明显比欧文更好。在欧文的菜鸟赛季,骑士阵中第二好的球员是35岁的安托万-贾米森;当他成为一名二年级新秀的时候,第二好的球员是菜鸟赛季的迪昂-维特斯;到了欧文的第三个赛季,终于能够保持适度健康打了71场比赛,骑士也在特里斯坦-汤普森和洛尔-邓(仅仅代表骑士打了半个赛季)的帮助下取得了33-49的战绩。33胜并不伟大,但是战绩在逐年上升并且即将达到能够进入季后赛的水平。
And why do people ignore Kyrie was injured 25% of the season in his first two seasons when bringing up Cleveland's record?
为什么人们在谈论欧文职业生涯前两年骑士的战绩的时候会忽略掉他因伤缺席了其中25%的比赛呢?
Also his rookie season in 11-12 was the lockout year where they only played 66 regular season games. Comparing the wins in that season to an 82-game season doesn't make sense.
并且他的菜鸟赛季是NBA停摆后的缩水赛季,他们仅仅打了66场常规赛。用那个赛季的胜场数和82场的正常赛季胜场数相比没有任何意义。
Anthony Davis: 27-55(Eric Gordon/Ryno/Vasquez), 34-48(added Jrue/Tyreke)
KAT: 29-53(Wiggins/Rubio/Lavine), 31-51
Durant: 20-62, 23-59(Westbrook/Jeff Green)
Curry: 26-56(Monta/Maggette), 36-46(Monta/David Lee)
Wall: 23-59(Arenas/Swaggy/Blatche)汪念杰, 20-46
其他一些被认为是基石球员的生涯前两年战绩:
安东尼-戴维斯:27-55(埃里克-戈登/莱恩-安德森/瓦斯奎兹),34-48(加入了朱-霍乐迪/泰瑞克-埃文斯)
唐斯:29-53(维金斯/卢比奥/拉文),31-51
杜兰特:20-62,23-59(威少/杰夫-格林)
库里:26-56(蒙塔-埃利斯/马盖蒂),36-46(蒙塔-埃利斯/大卫-李)
沃尔:23-59(阿里纳斯/尼克-杨/布拉奇),20-46

[–]TimberwolvesConvulsed 54 指標 16小時前*
All these players played in the West besides Wall who had scrubs from off the street on his team.
To be fair, Kyrie had no one either.
楼主说的所有这些球员都在西部打球,除了沃尔外,而后者生涯初期的队友都是一堆垃圾。
但是说句公道话,欧文当年也没有强力的队友。
[–]Bullsdeadassynwa 934 指標 16小時前
I guess we'll find out.
That's why he wants to leave.
等欧文走了我们就知道他带队能力究竟如何了。
那就是为什么他想要离开克利夫兰去证明自己的原因。
[–][GSW] Andre IgoudalazzMojaveExpress 258 指標 15小時前*
It's not just about his record, it's about his game. We don't know if he can do anything except score because that's all he's done so far.
那不仅仅是球队战绩的事情,而是关于他的比赛风格。我们不知道除了得分外欧文还能做什么,因为这是目前为止他所做的一切
Davis: Score, rebound, defend
KAT: Score, rebound,陈荣竣 be a stretch 5
Durant: Score, be really tall (later developed defense)
Curry: Score (and was an all-time great 3pt shooter even as a rook), pass
Wall: Facilitate, score, defend
浓眉:得分、篮板、防守
唐斯:得分、篮板、能够拉开空间的五号位
杜兰特:得分、身高非常出众(之后开发出了防守)
库里:得分(新秀赛季就已经是史上最伟大的三分射手之一)、传球
沃尔:组织、得分、防守
Kyrie has the potential to do it but it's worrisome that he put up 27.2 FGA/36 with LeBron off the floor. He's not setting his teammates up. Why恐龙侵袭 ? He's got Kevin Love. He's got JR and Korver. But his USG% is higher than '06 Kobe.
欧文拥有做到这些的潜力但还是让人担忧,在勒布朗下场的时间里,他平均每36分钟出手27.2次。他并没有组织他的队友去得分。这是为什么呢?他已经得到了凯文-乐福、JR-史密斯和科沃尔,但是他的球权占有率甚至比06赛季的科比还要高。
As the focal point you've got to facilitate昆仑镜之忆, or make up for it in another way, like being an elite defender.
作为球队的核心冰点卡盟,你必须要组织进攻分配球权,或者用另一种方式来弥补这些,比如成为一名精英级别的防守悍将。
[–]WarriorsSgtDowns 32 指標 10小時前
Seriously people are being so arrogant and stupid about it. Just look at Kyrie with Lebron off the floor. It's more than enough to say Kyrie at his current point is not ready to be a primary option.
严肃地说,人们目前对欧文的看法是如此傲慢和愚蠢。还是看看欧文在詹姆斯不在场时的表现吧。这比那更有说服力,在目前阶段欧文还没有准备好成为一名带队的第一选择。
[–]squatcat 9 指標 10小時前
You all must have forgot that, for all of his career, Kobe drew double and triple teams. You just can't compare him with Kyrie.
你们一定都忘记了,在科比的整个职业生涯中,他一直吸引双人甚至三人包夹。你不能简单地拿他和欧文相比。
[–][MIN] Andrew Wigginsstdebo 106 指標 13小時前
Yeah except Kobe was a better scorer as well.
是啊,除此之外科比也是个更好的得分手。
[–][WAS] John WallKingRikaru 228 指標 16小時前
Dude is basically an undersized SG who is a low effort defender and doesn't make anyone around him better. The argument about Kyrie's early years is overblown, but I'm still taking all the guys you listed over him.
欧文这个家伙基本上就是一个身材不足的得分后卫曹佑宁 ,一名低效的防守者,而且并没有使他周围的人变得更好王梓清。关于欧文早些年的一些争论有些言过其实了,但是我仍然要把楼主列出来的球星都排在他之上尾兽数数歌 。

[–]Lakersi_am_penis 153 指標 13小時前
You're using Kyrie's 3rd season at age 21 but only counting the first two for everyone else?
What the hell man. In their 3rd seasons at age 21:
Durant lead the league in scoring and took OKC to 50 wins.
Davis lead the league in blocks and got 45 wins.
楼主你用欧文21岁时第三个赛季的表现和其他那些球员仅仅前两年的表现做对比?
这特么是在做什么啊。看看你说的那些人在21岁时第三个赛季的表现吧:
杜兰特得到了得分王的头衔,并且率领雷霆拿到了50胜。
浓眉得到了盖帽王的头衔,并且拿到了45胜。
Those guys are obviously generational talents but still you're reaching here. KAT is hasn't even had a 3rd season, and Curry stayed much longer in college and was often injured闽南话教程 , so Wall is the only comparison that makes sense.
很明显那些人是一代天骄,但是楼主你确实也有些道理。唐斯甚至还没开始他的第三个赛季,库里在大学里待了更长时间馨子的老公,而且生涯早期经常受伤,所以只有沃尔是唯一合理的比较对象。
[–]RaptorsAhmedF 62 指標 11小時前
Yup - talk about cherrypicking.
是的——论巧妙选取数据的重要性。
[–][SEA] Kevin DurantSytherus 21 指標 11小時前
KAT is probably gonna do it in his 3rd season. Curry & Wall both missed 30+ games in season 3.
唐斯可能会在他的第三个赛季达到那些成就,而库里和沃尔都在他们的第三个赛季因伤错过了30场比赛以上。
The 3rd season is the best one to judge by too. Deliberately excluding the best data we have.
用第三个赛季的表现来评判这些球员再合适不过了。但是楼主却刻意去除了那些球员最好的数据虚怀若谷造句,以此来体现欧文的优势。
[–]Wizards Bandwagonlivefreeordont 77 指標 13小時前
John Wall's supporting cast was Kirkmc天津饭 , Yi, Baltche, Javale, Swaggy P, and Jordan Crawford. I don't know how that isn't the worst team ever assembled
约翰-沃尔当年的助手们可是柯克-辛里奇,易建联,布拉奇,贾维尔-麦基,尼克-杨和乔丹-克劳福德。我不知道这为什么不是有史以来最烂的团队的。
[–]HeatAnCo17 335 指標 16小時前
The main criticism on Kyrie is that he's not really a team player. Most of his scoring is iso. In the 2000s defensive dominated NBA, it might have been fine just to have one offensive star, but in an era where offense matters more than ever万能合成 , I don't think Kyrie is a suitable number one option for a team. I think he doesn't get his teammates involved as much as he should. Maybe that'll change after he and LeBron separate, but from what I saw the last few years in Cleveland I don't really think he's meant to lead a team in the modern day NBA.
对欧文的主要批评来自于他并不是一名真正的团队型球员,他的得分大部分来自于单打。在21世纪的头十年,防守主导着NBA,队中有一名进攻型的球星还可以,但是当进攻变得比之前任何时候都重要的时候,欧文并不是带队的最佳人选。我认为他没有尽可能地使他的队友参与到进攻中来。或许当他和勒布朗分开之后那会有所改观,但是从我过去几年在克利夫兰所看到的来说,我真的认为欧文并不适合在现代的NBA领导一支队伍。

[–]TimberwolvesTherealzdaddy 67 指標 16小時前
I agree, I have been getting flak on the timmy sub about trade rumors for saying he's an incredible talent however I would rather develop a ball movement system in minny rather than ISO. I don't think he's very well equipped to orchestrate an offense. Well equipped however to get his own buckets.
森林狼球迷:我同意,在森林狼专区里我由于对欧文交易持有的态度而一直受到抨击,我认为欧文拥有不可思议的天赋,但我更宁愿在明尼苏达创造一个合理运转球的体系而不是引进一个单打独斗者。我认为他并没有足够的能力去组织一支球队的进攻洪立熙 ,相反对自己如何去得分欧文倒是非常有能力。
[–]Rocketsrtyuuytr 102 指標 16小時前
Wiggins is the definition of tunnel vision. 29th in assist rate among starting SF last year...
维金斯就是“视野狭窄”的定义,去年他在所有首发小前锋的助攻榜上排第29名...
[–]Bullsdeadassynwa 77 指標 16小時前
Wiggins is just as bad on defense, worse at playmaking and isnt the scorer that Kyrie is
维金斯在防守上也是一样差,在组织方面更差并且还不是欧文那样的得分手。
[–]Lakers BandwagonLiaM_CS 51 指標 15小時前
Wiggins is younger and has a much much higher ceiling though.
但是维金斯更年轻,并且他的上限非常非常高。
[–][CLE] LeBron Jamesleeban17 33 指標 15小時前
I don't think he has a higher ceiling than kyrie. Kyrie 8s way too skilled and lacks effort on d. Has the tools. If kyrie can get out of tunnel vision and facilitate he can be a top 5 player
我认为维金斯的上限并不比欧文高大川隆法 。欧文的技巧更加熟练,只是在防守端缺少努力。他有足够的得分工具源本平凡 ,如果欧文能够摆脱“视野狭窄”的问题,为队友创造更多的机会,他能成为前五的球员。
[–]Hawksjhammer19 9 指標 14小時前
so your saying he could become james harden if he passes more?
所以楼上的意思是如果欧文多传球的话能够成为詹姆斯-哈登吴忠宪 ?
[–]Bullshayabusa- 167 指標 16小時前
Wall, Durant, and Curry have proven themselves a hundred times over.
AD got one of the most injured rosters in the league to the playoffs in one of the toughest playoff races in recent memory.
KAT may not have done shit yet but he's already better than Kyrie.
沃尔、杜兰特和库里都已经无数次证明自己了。
在近期的记忆里,浓眉带领拥有联盟里最多伤病之一的鹈鹕,经过最艰难的季后赛席位之争闯入了季后赛。
唐斯可能目前为止还没做到那些,但是他已经比欧文更强了。

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